ElectroGravitic Metal Combination?
transcript and additional material courtesy of Rod Fredlund
The following file consists of a combination of details on certain
elements purported to have 'electrogravitic' properties, a transcript from the
fascinating Art Bell radio talk show and what is claimed to be experimental
verification of erratic movement of such material. The information was
provided to KeelyNet through the very considerate efforts and courtesy of Rod
Fredlund ([email protected]) (tell him if you liked it and say THANKS!)
Magnesium/Bismuth Layering & Electrogravity
Bismuth is a white, crystalline, brittle metal with a pinkish tinge.
Bismuth is the most diamagnetic of all metals, and the thermal conductivity is
lower than any metal, except mercury. It has a high electrical resistance, and
has the highest Hall effect of any metal (that is, the greatest increase in
electrical resistance when placed in a magnetic field). The metal is used as
a thermocouple material (has highest negativity known).
is used in computers for radio-frequency shielding.
is used in photocopiers (conducts electricity when illuminated).
What follows is a transcript of the first 15 minute of the Art Bell show
that was broadcast on 8-6-96. You can currently listen to this interview if
you have an internet connection and Real Audio software by following this link
If you would like to find out more about this piece of material including
pictures and more Real Audio clips, then follow this link
The parties to this interview are...ART - Art Bell / DAN - Dan (No last
name mentioned) / LINDA - Linda Howe
LINDA: ... magnesium zinc alloy, and on Tuesday July 2, the university
scientist made a polished cross section of the layered material to analyze
further with Wave Dispersive Spectroscopy which is more refined than the EDS.
The WDS did not find any other elements, but we now have more accurate
percentages on the magnesium and zinc. There is a range from 97 to about 97-
1/2% magnesium and 3% to 2-1/2% zinc in each of those 100 to 200 micron layers
of the magnesium zinc, so its almost entirely magnesium with about 3% zinc.
ART: All right.
LINDA: The pure bismuth layers are 1 to 4 microns thick in a slightly wavy
pattern and nothing else but bismuth was found. Again, no oxygen has come up,
no zirconium, no other elements - just these 3. And among the many faxes that
we have received from listeners so far about the layered material, the one
from Dan caught my attention and indicated he had professional knowledge that
would relate the material to antigravity. He had worked from 1973 to 1980 for
an organization called Aeronautical Systems Division at Edwards Air Force Base
in California with some assignments at Wright Patterson in Ohio. Dan received
bachelors degrees in physics, aerospace engineering and computer science from
California Polytecnic State University, masters degrees in computer science
and aerospace engineering fromUniversity of California at Berkley and then
received his Ph.D. in physics in 1974 after he had already begun work as a
civilian scientist for the Air Force. I called him last Sunday and did a long
recorded interview during the day with his permission with the agreement that
I would not use his name. In a normal world without tapped phones, only Dan
and I should have had any knowledge about our discussion because I wanted more
time to study what he said and edit it for a Dreamland report later, but as
you know Art, Friday afternoon July 5th, Dan had a visit by 3 men in a dark
blue Chevy sedan, 2 of which came to his door and presented Defense
Intelligence Agency identification and said they needed to talk to him. This
is Dan's description of what happened on Friday...
(Note, there might some slight differences in wording due to transciption
from the Real Audio, mostly in wording and spelling but not details....>>>
DAN: The doorbell rang, I went and opened it and there were 2 gentlemen
DAN: 2. A fellow was still in the sedan and they presented identification
and asked if they could come in and chat for a while.
LINDA: And what was the ID they showed?
DAN: The standard DIA IDs.
LINDA: Defense Intelligence Agency.
DAN: Yes - there was no question that that was where they were from. It
wasn't... I was convinced as soon as I saw them it wasn't a game.
LINDA: And did the badges themselves or the ID they showed say Defense
DAN: It said typical, looks like a typical, almost like a business card,
with photo ID.
DAN: So I invited them in and they were very straight-forward about their
questions, asked me if I had been in communication with any journalists. And
I said what subject, what are you talking about. They said let me be very
frank about this, have you been talking to anybody about work you did in the
70's? And I said yes. Like I said there was certainly no reason to lie about
it for crimeny sakes!
DAN: I know the organization. And, well they came right out and asked the
name. Have you been talking to Linda Howe? I said I certainly have. She's a
very reputable science journalist, she's currently investigating some stuff
that was shipped to Mr. Art Bell, and I felt I had some information that was
worthwhile that I could provide to them.
LINDA: And what did they say to that?
DAN: There was really no comment. They were once again rather tight-lipped
about it. And I said do you have any documentation, are you going to arrest me
or what? They said you know we don't need any documentation to do that. Was
kinda there response.
LINDA: They don't need documentation to arrest you.
LINDA: What does that mean really?
DAN: Well, I think that they, I think its, its probably one of those games
that all of a sudden you're above the law or they're above the law when you're
working with those kinds of individuals. They don't need to go to a court and
get anything, they can kinda haul me away if they want to.
LINDA: Can that really happen?
DAN: Yeah it can happen. And I said well I think you'd be hard pressed to
do it because I've been in conversation, your aware that I've been in
conversation and I have obviously not talked about any State secrets or
anything of that nature. Can you argue with me about that? And there was no
comment. But they wanted to go through about 2 hours of you know questions and
answers, and I'm in the process of trying to write everything down right now,
to go into details on all that stuff may be the best offense besides being
public. So "garble" to some degree to start talking and everything. But they
were very (persistent), it was just the same questions over and over and over
again, I went through that same crap back in the early 80's, almost all
through the 80's whenever I left the country and come back into the States I'd
hit the passport place, you know where you go through the lines to get your
passport stamped, and all of a sudden, would you follow me please? Oh God,
here we go! There I am in some room for 4 or 5 hours asking 20 questions.
Where've ya been and who've ya talked to, have you been anywhere else, are you
LINDA: Civilian work?
DAN: Yeah it was all civilian at that time...
LINDA: And you would look at these Q&As as basically harassment in saying
we are on top of you no matter where you go.
DAN: Yeah, it was like I guess I'm going to have to put up with this crap
forever, was kinda the attitude I got. Then finally, oh the last dozen or so
trips I made they kinda went away and quit asking me every time and like I
said I finally came to the conclusion, well, it looks like maybe they don't
care about me anymore, I kinda gotten that feeling. And then of course
yesterday everything just came rushing back. Oh God, here I am again.
LINDA: Did they say anything specifically about the layered material?
DAN: No. There was no conversations about anything we discussed or
materials or anything like that. I'm convinced that the people really didn't
know the whys and whatfors, I'm sure they were just soldiers sent out.
LINDA: To ask you if you had been talking to me?
DAN: Yep. The bottom line is as far as I can tell they've been monitoring
your stuff for probably 3 to 4 weeks. And so you came back and started talking
about materials and stuff like that then all of a sudden the monitoring system
went into place.
LINDA: Right. Well, we figured such but this would suggest that your phone,
my phone are probably tapped, or..
DAN: There's no reason not to hide behind it, ya know?
LINDA: Yeah that's right.
DAN: I'm not going to go to some pay-phone and call you, what the hell good
is that going to do?
LINDA: No, un-unh, and what are we doing? We're simply talking about
material that may have come from a craft that is not from this Earth and why
is this considered to be a secret suppressed at all cost? Why?
DAN: Well, you know, why's it such a sensitive area?
DAN: That beats the heck out of me. I don't know and that's not the word
I'd use because I'd start using 4 letter metaphors real easily..
DAN: at that point. But, you know, it just pisses me off, excuse my
LINDA: Now I would like to go back to what Dan told me over the phone
before the Defense Intelligence agents showed up at his door step.
ART: All right. All right, now listen carefully there's a slight pause here
this is a very interesting interview coming up here to why they showed up who
< There is a tape miscue but then interview begins>
DAN: I worked for the Air Force from 1973 to 1980, worked for Wright
Patterson Air Force Base and at Edwards Air Force Base.
DAN: that period of time worked for a organization called Aeronautical
LINDA: Well, did the government come to you and ask you to work for it or
did you go to the government?
DAN: They came to me.
LINDA: How did it happen?
DAN: I got a phone call, a professor called me in 73, in late 73 and said
we have an opportunity, they want the brightest of the bright we have here and
we gave them your name and I got a call from a fellow and interviewed him, it
kinda just went that way.
LINDA: And your work then was what?
DAN: Well it was involved in aeronautical engineering, basically in
LINDA: But did you have specific materials you were trying to analyze, back
engineer, what was the nature of your work?
DAN: I was doing a lot of reverse engineer type work.
LINDA: And the materials you were reverse engineering were from where?
DAN: Everywhere, basically. There was some pretty exotic stuff.
LINDA: Did you know what its source was?
DAN: I, in some cases no.
LINDA: Well, was it ever said to you this was from an extra-terrestrial
DAN: No, I never heard that ,>
LINDA: Did you, those of you who were working on the back engineering, did
you infer you were working on extra-terrestrial craft pieces?
DAN: Well sometimes we kinda chuckled, you know, and said well "I wonder
if" type stuff, but there was never really any statements to that effect or
anything. There was, like I, there was fairly exotic stuff we were working
LINDA: Would you have actually seen and handled bismuth and magnesium in
LINDA: And did it come in than as an unknown?
DAN: Yes, and it left as one as well.
LINDA: And it left as an unknown?
LINDA: And this would have been in the context of military research?
LINDA: Did you ever have a discussion with anybody about the possible
application of these bismuth magnesium layers?
DAN: Not really. At that time when I, because typically the stuff is very,
is extremely, well ... what term do I want to use?... very well
there's a big box around you, which means you don't have 4 or 5 people looking
at the same thing, so your kinda isolated in some of the thing you do. Quite
frankly there was, number 1, no one to talk to, number 2, if I did start
talking about some of the stuff they wouldn't believe it anyway, and number 3,
I'd probably end up in jail or dead and I'm not sure in which order that may
LINDA: So you could do research on whatever your isolated task was, but you
had no colleagues with which to discuss it?
DAN: Not necessarily. Only in very limited cases would there be other
people that would get involved.
LINDA: Now in terms of this material, the thin layered bismuth and
magnesium, what is your personal, best educated, experiential guess about its
DAN: Its electrogravitic material.
LINDA: Now, would you elaborate on electrogravitic.
DAN: Well, what electrogravitics is is basically antigravity. I'll give you
that statement. Its basically antigravity per se. Now all of a sudden that
coins up all sorts of mythical nonsense about, you know the things you could
do or you could think of, you know, it comes from science fiction a lot, where
you hear that term antigravity. But in fact there is a very strong basis of
electrogravitics that are around. In the case of bismuth, its basically, as I
said in that FAX, a diamagnetic material which means it tends to repel...
LINDA: a magnetic field.
DAN: a magnetic field. And there was very strange things that were bound
with bismuth as basically positive charges were added to it, you know, putting
a field, a positive electron field into the bismuth. As a matter of fact there
were very, they were very dramatic, some of the things that they found. Now a
lot of this goes all the way back to 1917.
LINDA: OK. And what was the most dramatic thing that would happen as you
increased the positive flow into bismuth?
DAN: Well, basically you would see a mass reduction, basically you could
see the mass of the material reduce or the weight reduce, anything of that
nature to the point where it could come to zero.
LINDA: Have you ever seen material actually rise in the air when subjected
to a strong voltage?
DAN: I can't talk about that.
LINDA: But, I'm going to deduce that the outcome of doing this and
essentially what's happening is that the bismuth is being provoked to resist
the magnetic field by the voltage, correct?
DAN: Absolutely. And that's the entire theory behind a lot of the work that
I've provided to you. And if you could theoretically build a vehicle that the
mass of it became less than zero then you would by definition have a lifting
LINDA: And he is having a lifting body in part of an antigravitic science
Art, that for some reason our government has somehow wanted to suppress all
ART: All right, well we're going to hold it there, the essence of the Linda
Howe interview on Sunday...
The following is an email regarding experiments with this Layered
Travis Taylor, (a DOD scientist?), has been working on this material
and has applied a 500 kv static electric field to a piece of this material and
said that it "really started jumping about". This experiment is supposed to be
on videotape. I just hope he took precautions to prevent this from being an
electrostatic attraction effect. If he did, this would seem to be an important
confirmation that this is an electrogravitic material well worth further
study. - Rod
Vanguard Sciences comments
Years ago, while studying some old documents from a now defunct UFO
group in England, I came across a short comment claiming that one of their
members had done experiments with dissimilar metals. He used two disks of the
same dimension and thickness but of two different materials, copper and zinc
(as I recall, it was many years ago).
The disks were kept very close together and rotated in opposite directions.
The claim was they levitated when spun, though the comment did not specify the
requirement for high voltage as in the case of the Biefeld/Brown effect.
It was simply rotation of mass which is more consistent with Otis T. Carr,
Bruce DePalma and Dr. Harold Aspden with their claims of anomalous inertial or
gravitic effects associated with rotating mass.
Speaking of inertia and gravity reduction, an interesting story was told to
me at the recent Low Level Energy Conference by Michael Roberts, President of
the Association for Push Gravity Research.
One day a few years ago, he got a phone call at his home in Waco. It was
from a fellow who had stopped in Waco and wanted to meet Michael at a local
mall. Michael drove out there and the man was parked, in his late model Jeep
in a remote section of the parking lot. They shook hands and talked a bit.
The man said he would like to show Michael what he had been working on.
The Jeep engine was off, the vehicle was put in neutral and was not braked in
any way. Michael was asked to push the vehicle. He did so with both hands,
meeting an expected amount of resistance before he got it moving.
The man got in and braked the vehicle. He then showed Michael 4 mystery
boxes (each about 12" X 6" X 4") mounted in the top of each wheel well of the
Jeep. Each box had an electrical cable that led under the hood. Michael was
not allowed to see under the hood.
Immediately after the push test, the man got in the Jeep and flicked a
toggle switch which had been installed under the dashboard. Michael was then
asked to push the Jeep again, this time it moved with the light touch of one
The man would say nothing about the secret to this miracle was
accomplished, he just wanted to show Michael that it was possible and there
were those who had achieved it. This startling anecdote of course caused me
to ask who the guy was, you know phone number, address and such. Michael said
he'd misplaced that information but he remembered the Jeep had KANSAS LICENSE
Kind of fits doesn't it since the Wizard of OZ has definite links to
Kansas, eh, Dorothy?
In discussing this with my friend Dan Davidson, he suggested the four boxes
acted to provide a stabilized buoyancy type field, like pontoons on a boat.
The use of only one would deflect the incoming gravity in one localized area,
thus creating an imbalance. Whereas one unit over each wheel would equally
distribute the deflection around the center of mass of the Jeep. Makes sense
Anybody know this guy in Kansas? Or anything else that relates to how such
a device would work? Please share it with us here at KeelyNet! Thanks...>>>