Most recent comments on Hamel experiments
as of 03/09/97


The following are emails that have been sent direct to KeelyNet or posted via the freenrg-l or Antigravity lists. It is so refreshing to see people actually getting involved and sharing their findings, whether successes or failures. Keep this up and we'll have something that works for sure!
Date: 03 Mar 97 15:51:33 EST
From: MicroTech - 100102.2671@CompuServe.COM
To: Jerry Decker - jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: Hamel Spinner

Hi Jerry,

I tried the Bedini type Hamel disk spinner. Unfortunately, we don't get inch measured magnets in Switzerland, only millimeters.

So I used the following arrangement: Big ring magnet: 21 magnets 24mm x 13mm, which gives an inner circle diameter of 93mm and a ring thickness of 24mm. Small ring magnet: 50.8 mm outer diameter, 24mm inner diameter, 9 mm thick. Steel ball 26 mm diameter.

This makes almost the same configuration as Bedini's.

My experiments are NEGATIVE, unfortunately, and I think because of the following reasons:

As you said in one of your last mails, you tried it, too, and you noticed that it did not spin too long because the small ring magnet left the big ring magnet's area. Well, I think that the ring magnet spins only BECAUSE it moves.

If my experiments are right, the ring magnet spins only, if you tilt the big ring magnet a bit. This gives the small magnet a little push, which is transformed into an angular momentum causing it to spin (but also move away!).

If I really don't move my big ring magnet, the small magnet will stop spinning and stabilise in a position sooner or later.

Now I have one or two questions to all who duplicated this experiment positively: (By the way, I haven't checked Bedini's last experiment with the neodymium magnets)

Have you made sure that the small ring magnet did spin, only, and not move in the same time?

Have you made sure that you did not follow the small ring magnet instinctively as it tried to move away?

Try to fix the small ring magnet on a shaft and also fix the big ring magnet. Does it still spin ?

If it really spins like a perpetuum mobile, it should spin hour for hour for hour ... Was this the case?

Hoping I am wrong and I just did a silly mistake in my experiment.

Greetings. Daniel Geisenhoff.
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 11:53:48 +1200
From: Teague Family - teague@es.co.nz
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hamel Spinning disk
Jean-Louis et al

Based on my experience it is only a pivot point.

> And what do you think of the importance of steel ball ? Is it only for reducing friction or for changing the shape of the magnetic field ?

On hand were a couple of ring magnets about 70x45x5mm (ODxIDxthickness) salvaged from automotive oil filters. No steel ball large enough so I hot glued one to a billiard ball.

It works after a fashion, the second magnet above, tilted and slightly offset axially... poles arranged so the magnets attract, not repel.

Performance was improved after substituting a 60x32x8mm magnet and suitable steel ball for the spinning component. However I find a need for a destablizing condition to make it spin at speed... moving the top magnet steadily away from myself works well.

Which brings to mind the beauty of the Searl method ie the imposition of a secondary offset magnetic field, if only I understood it better. John Bedini's latest is becoming reminiscence of the SEG ie Searl Effect Generator.

Cheers... Rex
ps. I've been lurking awhile... pleased to meet you. 8-)
This one has got to be a winner!
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 03:13:49 -0500 (EST)
To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: Hamel Spinning disc test feedback

Hi Jerry,

I have built the first test model of Hamel spinner disc today, I use 8 ferrite magnets 25x5x40 mm magnetic poles inward mounted in 10 cm PVC cylinder. For the spinning device I use my Levitron on glass sheet ( it is a very frictionless 28 mm ring magnet mounted as a spinning top ).

The "magnetic gate" is put 50 mm above the glass sheet with a FIXED apparatus. The Levitron device is spinning for about 6 mn align on magnetic gate axis.

You can notice that as Levitron device is floating normally in the air at 40 mm above the Levitron magnet platform for 2 mn 30. The Levitron device has a weight of 22 gr. The levitating time is less than on Hamel configuration because the precession momentum needed to maintain the stability of Levitron in magnetic levitation is not use in this case......This was the first test, I have attached a color picture of my first test.

Do you think that the use of steel ball have a magnetic importance ? or is it just for reducting friction ?

The second test planned will be with a ring magnet and a steel ball.....stay tuned.

Truly - Jean-Louis Naudin
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 01:52:53 -0500
From: Avital Pilpel - ap241@columbia.edu
Organization: Columbia University
To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: Free energy

Hate to rain on your parade, but you CANNOT get free energy, or engines that are "more than 100% efficient". The law of conservation of energy (first law of thermodynamics) outlaws this possibility.

Yes, I know, I know, this law MIGHT be wrong. But there also MIGHT bre an invisible dragon looking over your shoulder right now as you read this (don't look now), OK?

Avital Pilpel
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:41:44 -0500 (EST)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, billb@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com, etc. cc: john1@rand.nidlink.com
Subject: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!

Dear ALL,

I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic Gate.

The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!!

In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components.

I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!

I have put schemes, tests results and all informations that you need to build a successfull experiment of this Magnetic Gate in my Web server at :

http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Truly - Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 12:46:44 +0000
From: Rudy Langen
Reply-To: log@world-famous.com
To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: David Hamel

Jerry,

I got your order for your David Hamel Videos, thanks, it went out a few days ago. Also thanks for helping David out by advertising his site I'm sending an autographed copy of his book to you no charge.

I seem to be getting a lot of mail requesting more information on David Hamel, do you think that you could add a link at the end of your David Hamel page to: http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamel.html

This would save me some time writing personally to everone that wants more info.

Thanks - Rudy Langen
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 09:22:13 -0800
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
From: Epitaxy
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!

Dear Jean

I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is stronger.

HOWEVER !!! I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak' side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side.

This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1 second VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds. In both cases the discharged energy is the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either side of the gate is DIFFERENT.

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated force VS. distance !!!

In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force" difference ?

At 12:02 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:

Dear Free Energy Men,
I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic Gate. The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!!

In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components. I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!

I have put schemes, tests results and all informations that you need to build a successfull experiment of this Magnetic Gate in my Web server at : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Truly - Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com

my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
From: Robert Stirniman
Subject: [Antigravity] Antigravity Report on CNN
To: antigravity@primenet.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:38:27 -0800 (PST)
Copied below is a transcipt of a recent CNN news report.
(http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9702/28/wt.04.html)
===================================================
World Today
Magnetic Field Suspends Things Without Damage
Aired February 28, 1997 - 10:39 p.m. ET
LINDEN SOLES, CNN ANCHOR: OK, it looks pretty much like a thousand other...
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): ...scientific laboratories, but this one in the Netherlands is attracting attention -- well, like a magnet.

Researchers testing magnetic properties discovered some fascinating results. Objects from nuts to flowers could be strangely suspended in the magnetic field.

And after they worked some bugs out, the scientists tried a grass hopper and then a worm in the field. Even larger living creatures were no worse for the wear after the expert. Tadpoles were untouched. And scientists say if they could find a human small enough or a magnet big enough, they would have the same incredible ride.

(END VIDEOTAPE)
From: "john1" - john1@nidlink.com
To: jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: Magnetic Gate
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:54:03 -0800
Jerry Check this out - John
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:30:02 -0500 (EST)
To: john1@nidlink.com
Subject: Re : Re: Hamel Spinning disc test feedback

Hi John,

Thank's for your helpful informations. I have experimented your magnetic gate IT'S WORK AS YOU SAID !!!!, Wonderfull, I think that you are in a good way !!!

I have put a 6 cm cylinder magnet in the axis of my magnetic gate (10cm diameter build with 10 ferrite magnets pole inward ) and it is pulled through inside the gate with a thrust GREATER THAN the force needed to pull inside.

I begin to understand the Hamel butterfly magnet now. Ok, for the magnetic Wankel motor, I am studying more Bearden theories about magnetic regauging.

After my first experiment with yout magnetic gate, I am convinced now that it's possible to build a permanent magnetic motor. I have put the complete test report of this first magnetic gate on my web server....You can distribute freely all these results around you if you want.

I work now, on the second version more improved of your device, stay tuned...

I look forward to receive any suggestions or comments about the tests of your Magnetic Gate.

SIncerely, Jean-Louis Naudin

<< Suj : Re: Hamel Spinning disc test feedback
Date : 05/03/1997 09:04:31
From: john1@nidlink.com (john1)
To: JNaudin509@aol.com

Jean

I do not know what the Levitron is, the magnet for the Levitron a solid Magnet, or is it a gate of some kind ? The Hamel spinner needs the ball to do what David Hamel said as the small ring Magnet fall's this causes the ring to rotate on the ball the trick here is to keep the magnet in a butterfly motion.

You should read His story and then you will understand why I built the magnetic gate, The gate is very special one way valve it will only let a cylinder Magnet pass one way and not the other way, Think for a moment about the Magnetic Wankel and then you will see what I'M up to.

A Permanent Magnet Motor can only be made if the gate cause a spin and then it must be off center to continue it's rotation, the rotor must move from LOW to HIGH pressure and then start all over again, so their are some Key factors to be studied here, We need to do away with the electricity here, NO COIL to fire the magnet into the gate.

If you have more Questions about this I'm here so far.

John Bedini

Levitron Levitating Top

Centrifugal magnetic stability in the amazing Levitron top, be sure to also click on the physics of it!


From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 05:46:52 GMT
Organization: Improving

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:41:44 -0500 (EST), JNaudin509@aol.com wrote:

I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic Gate. The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!! In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components. I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!

[snip]

Try putting two gates, one behind the other, and see if you get more than 2.85 times. If so, then you should be able to put several of them around a circular centre tube, sort of like a particle accelerator. Then if it is really OU, the ferrite rod will keep accelerating 'round and 'round.

Robin van Spaandonk - rvanspaa@netspace.net.au
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:34:24 -0500 (EST)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
cc: billb@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au, john1@rand.nidlink.com
Subject: Re : Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : All
From: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com (Epitaxy)

From Epitaxy - Dear Jean

I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is stronger. HOWEVER !!! I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak' side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side. This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1 second VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds. In both cases the discharged energy is the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either side of the gate is DIFFERENT.

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated force VS. distance !!! In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force" difference ?

From Hal Puthoff - As you approach the magnetic gate with your little train car or whatever, you are subtly pushing up a magnetic hill without noticing it. Then when you reach the point at which the gate grabs the object and flings it across the room in its magnetic downhill run, you cannot help but be amazed. But put it in a circle and soon it is clear that it won't keep going. The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by the dramatic downhill slide.

From Jean Naudin - Thanks to you all, for your comments and suggestions about my experiment, I have tried to put two identical gates, today, the thrust is maintained constant with a gap of 50 mm between then gates. After "my OVERUNITY OF ENTHUSIASM" yesterday....it's TIME FOR THINKING NOW...

I think that the Bedini's magnetic gate is acting like a nonlinear gateway for the magnetic scalar potential energy. The best way of this magnetic gate is to use this as an energy pump, my objective is not to build a permanent magnetic motor.

I could notice that the evolution of kinetic energy of cylindrical magnet through magnetic gate have relaxation waveform. I work on QuickField simulation to tune finely the magnetic gate device and optimize the efficiency.

It's like a Tantale tank, the 50 mm gap must be adjust to maintain the relaxation without additional energy. I think that it is possible to tap free magnetic energy in non linearity zone (just after the magnetic gate), where the magnetic flux begin to change (just after the top of hill).

The magnetic gate must act as Magnetic Energy Pump IF the speed of the magnetic probe accelerate more than the normal run out speed. I experiment this concept in my lab's with the dynamic magnetic compression process.

We can obtain the same result dynamicaly with the magnetic gate, to obtain this time compression, we need to inject little energy in the circuit, with a coil for instance, but after regauging, I think that we should collect more energy than the input. I work on this, stay tuned......

It's only theory, today......

As said Bob Shannon some days ago "In theory, there is no differance between theory and practice, but in practice, there is."

I look forward to receive your comments and share the knowledge about this subject.

Truly - Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
From: Robert Stirniman - robert@skylink.net
Subject: Re: [Antigravity] Hamel Magnetic Spinner
To: jdecker@keelynet.com (Jerry)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:27:41 -0800 (PST)

Jerry Decker writes:
Thought some of you might be interested in a simple experiment which seems to be leading to something useful. It is based on David Hamels' claims of having built a flying disc (the poor man's Searl) which took off into space, much like Searl's is claimed to have done. Details at; http://www.keelynet.com/hamindex.htm

It looks somewhat like an inverted Levitron. Levitron is a spinning ring magnet over a larger non-spinning ring magnet. There is a moving image right now of the Levitron on Art Bell's home page.

The Levitron exhibits "stable" levitatation within a region of space, but bounces around quite a bit within the region. When it gets near an edge of the stable space, it is somehow pushed back in toward the center.

Assuming Hamlin's device works, I doubt if it is O/U. But it is pretty weird. In Hamlin's device the larger magnetic ring is held manually over the spinning ring.

Mabye you have to hold it at exactly at the right height to keep the spinning ring upright and centered, just like the Levitron is constantly "adjusting" its height and center position. Possibly in making this "adjustment" manually, energy is put into the system. Who knows?

And anyhow, where does the torsion come in to cause rotation? It should not work. But, four or five people now say that it does. One person says that it works with the upper ring held in a fixed position.

And if this weird little gadget works, does it make Mr Hamlin's other extraordinary claims seem more credible? Extraordinary is in this case, a huge understatement. Maybe his flying saucers work too?

Regards - Robert Stirniman
From: "Kreutzer, Bob" - bkreutzer@coi-world.com
To: "'jdecker@keelynet.com'" - jdecker@keelynet.com
Subject: Hamel spinner
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:45:28 -0800

I made the spinner as per John Bedini's instructions. It works as shown.

It also works with a 3.5"X.5" speaker magnet, so the donut magnet is not a critical dimension.

I was hoping it would lead me to a better understanding of Hamel's wobbling cone machine, but I still don't get it. But the little spinner is fun. My 11 year old son can really get some RPM out of it, makes me look pretty bad, but oh well.....

Also I made a section of R. Johnson's linear magnetic motor as per his patent drawing at 1/2 scale(that's the size of magnets I had) it worked too.

Bob Kreutzer
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 02:54:32 -0500 (EST)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: Magnetic Gate infos

<< Date : 07/03/1997 17:29:25 From: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM (wesly crosiar)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com

Jean: Will it complete a revolution?

crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM - THANKS WES - WESLEY CROSIAR

Hi Wesley, Hi all,

I work on this in my Lab's now, and the 3 stages version have an interesting efficiency: the kinetic energy is conserved (may be even increase (TO BE VERIFY !!!)) through the 3 gates without cough......

I project to conduct some tests with the magnet probe in free fall condition:

Firstly : testing the magnet probe's free fall without the MG using an electronic speedometer,

Secondly : through the MG at different level of speed entry.

I think that this is a good method to detect IF (???) it is possible to get OU with a magnetic scalar potential gate.

I work closely with John Bedini on this subject......stay tuned.... :-)

Overunity your - Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com
From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:44:02 -0500 (EST)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: Magnetic Gate infos

On 08/03/1997 04:55:25, you wrote :

The real question still is what happens between the ultimate beginning and the ultimate end of the device, as Scott Little pointed out. In other words, it's the same old refrain: tie the output to the input and see if you still get OU.

Rick Monteverde - Honolulu, HI

This is true, Rick, THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION ( O/U or not O/U ? ).....

After the test of the 1 stage Magnetic Gate, I have conduct some experiments:

First test : I would tried to verify if kinetic energy was sufficient to pass through two gates. It's ok, even if the second gate have the same force field and same shape.

I have notice in version 2 ( 2 gates ), that the magnetic probe have a jerky motion between the two gates. The kinetic energy progress in relaxation mode.

The kinetic energy accumulated between the gate during the rush out must be greater than the kinetic energy needed to enter into the gate. This is verified with this first experiment.

Second test : I would like to confirm this observation by adding a third gate (after a need to buy new magnets!, 10 magnets by gate is much for my stock !!!).

With 3 identicals gates and with 40mm gap between them, I have a jerky motion, but the probe can pass. I have the feeling that it is not the good way ( is run like a bad music note ...).

The correct tuning of the Magnetic Gate V3 was found with three differents shaped gates. 10 magnets for the first, 7 magnets for the second, 6 for the third with 40 mm gap between them.

I have put a picture of this Magnetic gate V3.0 with its design in my web server at : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/images/mg3pict.htm

To conclude this two experiments, I think that the most important point is that the probe must be in constant acceleration speed through a non linear magnetic field.

This can be done with a long magnet with an air which increase between magnet probe and Magnetic gate. The potential in the end gap is higher than the potential at the entrance of magnetic gate. This effect is fully used in Magnetic Wankel engine for instance, for more details see : http://www.virtualtimes.com/writers/bearden/mageng/mageng.htm

Some other engines use this main principle (Kawai engine, Adams motor...) but only on segmented zone.

The magnetic Wankel uses this effect on more than 300o of it course and when the electomagnet pulse is sent, it can regauge with an O/U effect.

My next test planned : Testing and measuring the kinetic energy during the free fall of the magnet probe, inside 1, 2 and 3 Magnetic gate. If the probe really accelerates, this acceleration must be added to the normal gravitational acceleration, and the result is easy to measure with a speedmeter or an electronic chronometer. Stay tuned......

I look forward to receive any comments and suggestions which can help me in this long but fascinating Quest of Overunity.

Truly - Jean-Louis Naudin - Email : JNaudin509@aol.com

my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 09:05:45 +0930
From: Greg Watson - gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets

herman@antioch-college.edu wrote:

Dear Greg,

Are these real measures ..... and if so by what means....?

The Gifs are produced by Quick Field magnetic simulation software.

What are the magnetic materials?

Conmmercial Neo Dyms. B/H curves from Phillips Data handbook.

Or is this simulation, and by whom, and what materials are plugged into the program.

Hi Herman,

I did the sims. I have verified by actual testing that the external field increases as shown. The test is simple.

Take two magnets and hold them about 5-6mm apart in an attracting mode.

Now take a small ferrite rod and approach the air gap between the magnets and note the pull experienced by your fingers.

Now reverse one of the magnets so they are now opposing and again approach the air gap between the magnets.

You will notice a much larger attractive force in the opposing mode. Now try varying the air gap and notice that the force of attraction continues to build as the air gap is decreased.

Really neat, simple demo and it works! I can add you to my Gif distribution list if you wish. I have sent you the zip file directly.

Best Regards - Greg Watson
Greg Watson Consulting
Adelaide, South Australia
gwatson@microtronics.com.au
From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves)
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets
Date: 09 Mar 1997 11:41:36 GMT
Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK

Greg Watson writes:

I have verified by actual testing that the external field increases as shown. The test is simple. Take two magnets and hold them about 5-6mm apart in an attracting mode. Now take a small ferrite rod and approach the air gap between the magnets and note the pull experienced by your fingers. Now reverse one of the magnets so they are now opposing and again approach the air gap between the magnets. You will notice a much larger attractive force in the opposing mode. Now try varying the air gap and notice that the force of attraction continues to build as the air gap is decreased. Really neat, simple demo and it works!

From Geoff Greaves - Isn't this as expected because with attracting poles the flux flows straight between the poles but with opposing poles it is forced out of the air-gap where its effect can be felt?

Rather like squeezing a balloon, the harder you squeeze the further out the balloon reaches. Similarly, the closer the opposing poles the further out the flux will reach but with no more power, analagous to the unchanged volume of the balloon.

Best wishes, geoff greaves


...More will be posted as it comes in...